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Hillary
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gaeln

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*agrees*

Loves that icon!!

You know, this sounds nice and all - and don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming you, and those are nice words, sure - but if they'd act on it, really act on it - that's what I'd like to see.

It's just so discouraging to read some things happening all over the world. And I know that nobody can change or save the world, but still ... there have to be consequences if a country still kills people just because they love someone of their own gender. And yet, most western states still do business with states liket hat, even call them friends (like Saudi Arabia). So words fall flat in the face of that.

Sorry, if this sounds meh, but I'm just so tired of yet more pretty words.

There was a time when no person of power would have dared to speak these words, no matter how they as human beings actually felt, for fear of reprisals. Never forget what it was like here, in puritan America, in the 1950s, more supposed homosexuals were fired from the federal government, were blacklisted than communists. Now there are gay men and women who are openly elected which makes the very repressed, very right-wing ideologues scared shitless so, they fight back wanting nothing more than to keep this country as it was some 200 years ago.

I know it's really bad out there, but that's because the world is changing, moving forward, there is no going back, and THEY know it.

This is a revolution, Connor, worldwide. As long as gays kept silent, there was no need for laws like that in St. Petersburg or Saudi Arabia. Clinton is speaking not only to us but to the world, to those who would deny that homosexuality even exists in their country. The change will come, you have to take the long view and for awhile it will only get messier but it will happen.

When the Vice-President of the United States can say that he has no problem with same-sex marriage, change is happening. So I guess I would say that instead of being discouraged figure out what you can do to make it happen all the faster.

Sorry I went on so long but as someone older than you, I lived what it was like, I know the change and it is for the better, Connor, really. These aren't just pretty words.

I just read through this entry and comments, and I want to you to know that it's never meant to be an attack against you! I just - am wary of politicians, that's all.
I also agree that things have gotten better.

But unlike you I can't see a worldwide revolution as much as I'd like to. In fact, I think on some continents, thanks to the beliefs and rules of white men things have gotten much worse. See, for example in Africa or Asia where equality was much more widespread before stupid beliefs turned everything upside down. And I'm not just talking about gay or straight, but also male and female. In Africa matriarchic structures were common - now you barely find them anymore. It's so sad and it's the reason I have a hard time believing in politicians and nice words. Hope that clears it up. :)

IKR? She makes me proud ;D

I agree with Connor, I'm tired of hearing pretty words, and I'm tired of politicians using us to put a bit of shine on their image ("Wow Hillary, you're not an asshole! Want a medal for that?"). Yes, a lot has changed for the better, but things have changed for the worse too if you look at places like Russia (not to mention governments that still put homosexuality under the death penalty). I don't see acceptance as anything praiseworthy, it should be normal and expected and not special or seen as something beyond common decency. It bugs me because it implies that not being homophobic is an achievement rather than a reasonable expectation, or that it's a concession or a special gift the person is making to us. Homophobia should be condemned where it's present, not its absence praised. I don't see equality as a gift that's given because it's not - it's something that's owed.

I sense your frustrated, which you apparently feel the need to point out on me because what? you think I don't understand the inherent inequality, the immorality, the humiliation of living in a world long long dominated by straight mainly white men over EVERYONE else, not just you, right? but everyone else. Not that long ago, women were considered property here, there and still are in far too many places so not just you.

I'm blind-sided by your words and, quite frankly, Connor's also. I didn't expect such anger thrown at me and it hurts. I point out only that the first woman Secretary of State for the US believes as I do and you both come at me harshly.

Thanks for making me feel safe here, Alex.

It wasn't meant harshly, and it wasn't against you. But if you try to see it from our perspective, it might make sense. Or, if you imagine Joe Blow promising to be nice and not punch you in the face, would you praise him and thank him? Or is that not noteworthy behavior because it can be expected? I've just often felt used by a lot of celebrities and politicians who parade their tolerance like it was something morally excellent in order to gain brownie points, that's something that does frustrate me.

sorry but your reply coming on the back of Connor's was too much. I'm here because I understand your perspective. How often have I said to my daughter how gracious it was of men to 'give' women the vote when they never had the right to deny it to us in the first place, how generous to finally consider us full human beings and not just property like we were some kind of animal.

I get your point, sweetie, I just felt very lectured at and yes, it was against me because I posted it on my blog as something positive. To be told by both of you that Hillary's words were nothing more then 'pretty' was denigrating to her and me because, let's face reality, the only way, as a small minority, gays are going get the rights they should never have been denied is through the efforts of straights and initially, that will be through the efforts of straight women like so many of your friends here on LJ, like Hillary Clinton and I do not believe for one minute that Hillary said what she said to gain brownie points with anyone. She said what she said because it is her belief, as it is mine.

And please, don't think for a minute I don't get it as I am an atheists, Alex, remember? How many countries would kill me or my child or my husband or many of our friends for our beliefs. How many openly athestic politicians do you think there are in this country representing us? None. How many in yours? How many anywhere?

I'm sorry I flared at you, am flaring at you, but for you to imply that I don't see or understand your perspective is insulting, especially given how long and, I thought, how well you know me.

We could go back & forth on this, but I don't want to, there's nothing to be gained. I probably shouldn't even bother with this reply but I still believe I can be honest with you. Take from it what you will.

Sorry, I didn't mean to lecture or minimize any effort. We've just heard so many words and it was all yadda-yadda...we tend to be skeptical. :/

I just felt very lectured at and yes, it was against me because I posted it on my blog as something positive.

Sorry you felt that way. But if something is said about a minority we're a part of, I don't think we should be gagged or told we don't know any better.

let's face reality, the only way, as a small minority, gays are going get the rights they should never have been denied is through the efforts of straights and initially, that will be through the efforts of straight women like so many of your friends here on LJ

I've often said so myself, but I still don't see lack of homophobic asshattery as something to be proud of, and I often see that, especially when it comes to celebrities and politicians. That's what rubs me wrong. I don't drop-kick puppies - am I proud of that? Of course not, that's something that'd never occur to me.

How many openly athestic politicians do you think there are in this country representing us? None. How many in yours? How many anywhere?

Here, we have in practice what the US only has in theory - a radical separation of church and state, of belief and state, including atheism since atheism is a belief as well. Beliefs and politics shouldn't be mixed, and here they're not.

but for you to imply that I don't see or understand your perspective is insulting, especially given how long and, I thought, how well you know me.

It wasn't meant to be insulting. But it's a fact that members of a minority are going to see things that elude people outside that minority. We all have a priviledge somewhere. If, say, a Native American or disabled person said "This rubs me wrong for this and that reason", I can't tell him he's wrong about that and should think differently, because I have a priviledge: I'm not part of his minority, so it's not possible to completely understand. To imply I know better and tell him how to think - that would be insulting.

We could go back & forth on this, but I don't want to, there's nothing to be gained.

No, I don't want to either, actually. :)

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